(1 Samuel 28: 7, NASB)
Here in this chapter in First Samuel we read the sad account
of king Saul trying to contact the prophet Samuel through a medium, which Saul
himself had "removed from the land
those who were mediums and
spiritists" (1 Sam. 28: 3, 9). Because of Saul's disobedience to the
Lord, God had departed from him and stopped speaking to him, either through
prophets or by dreams. So contacting Samuel through a medium was his last ditch
effort for help against the Philistines who were waging war against him. What
is real interesting is when the witch of En-dor summoned up Samuel the prophet,
instead of her familiar spirit [demon] imitating the prophet Samuel. In
distress "she cried out with a loud
voice; and the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For
you are Saul." (28: 12). Commenting on this passage in First Samuel,
Josh McDowell says:
"First, the element of surprise by
the medium indicates she was just as surprised as anyone at Samuel's appearance
(v. 12). Second, the Scripture clearly indicates that Samuel appeared (v. 12).
There is no indication that either fraud or demonism is present, as should be
the case if those were true. Thus, the logical conclusion must be in keeping
with Scripture. The Bible teaches that men have no power to call up dead
spirits, yet Samuel did appear. One concludes that it was God who chose to
raise up Samuel for this one occasion for His purposes, and there was no doubt
who it was. Neither the powers of darkness [the medium] nor the poor representation
of the Kingdom of
Light
God always does as He chooses in this
area, just as He chose to bring back Moses and Elijah on the Mount of
Transfiguration before Christ was resurrected. By means of analogy, it is also
true that through all men are subject to death, neither Enoch nor Elijah died.
Here again, the Lord made the exception."[1]
As we can see from the comment above, in this special
occasion God brought up His prophet, Samuel to reconfirm the judgment that was
to befall king Saul (see 1 Sam. 15 : 10-31
As we learned in part one, the souls of those who are in
hell cannot pass from there to earth or heaven (see Luke 16 : 19-31
[1] Josh
McDowell & Don Stewart, Handbook of Today's Religions, (Thomas
Nelson Publishers, Nashville ,
TN
Jerry, this is not correct. The Bible does NOT teach that men have no power to call up dead spirits. In Isaiah 8:19 we note the prophet contrasted the work of a MEDIUM with the work of a PROPHET as ways to know God's will. In this passage, Isaiah said that people shouldn't (not couldn’t) be asking the dead for guidance through the mediums. They should instead be asking God for guidance. This is an important distinction.
ReplyDeleteIn actuality, this contrast between the PROPHET and the MEDIUM exists much earlier in the Book of Deuteronomy. In Deut. 18:9-11, various occult practices are singled out and forbidden for use in Israel. So common were the practices, so universally accepted, that their prohibition came as a surprise and caused people to wonder how then they were to know God's will.
The problem with mediumship, Isaiah says, is that people are thereby led to put the dead in God's role. They ask for the kind of guidance only God should give.
Israel, fresh from Egypt, was very involved in the cult of the dead. It was a given in Egypt that the dead were more powerful, more spiritual, more insightful than the living, and fully deserving of worship due to God alone. But often the Egyptians weren't actually speaking to the dead. As the Bible warns, the entity speaking was often a "familiar" or "knowing" spirit. This was an evil angel, taking advantage of man's emotional ties to his dead loved ones, masquerading as such, and answering such questions as, "Where did you put the silver locket?" The familiar spirit, having all the great powers of an angel, though fallen, knows exactly where the locket is. Since the questioner is the only person who knows about grandma's locket (except dead grandma), he or she is led to believe that the entity speaking is indeed grandma.
This danger is one of the main reasons mediumship was forbidden. Once the individual accepts the speaking entity is grandma, that entity can lead the individual to any level of deception. The medium may have the best of intentions, and be fully convinced that “Spiritualism” is always accurate. But no amount of faith in a sect has any determination over whether that sect's beliefs are accurate.
Also interestingly, almost every "spiritual reading" contains not merely messages from departed loved ones, but PURPORTED GUIDANCE. This is what Isaiah 8:19-20 explicitly forbids.
But no, the Bible does NOT teach that men have no power to call up dead spirits. The Bible teaches that men should not for the above reasons.
-Alex Haiken
http://JewishChristianGay.wordpress.com
Hey Alex,
ReplyDeleteI am impressed Alex, I agree with "most" of what you wrote above. Some interesting perspectives on the dangers of "occult" practices. However, I still do have some things I need to point out in your response that I disagree with.
You said, "Jerry, this is not correct. The Bible does NOT teach that men have no power to call up dead spirits. In Isaiah 8:19 we note the prophet contrasted the work of a MEDIUM with the work of a PROPHET as ways to know God's will. In this passage, Isaiah said that people shouldn't (not couldn’t) be asking the dead for guidance through the mediums. They should instead be asking God for guidance. This is an important distinction." Alex, whether you agree or disagree, we DO NOT have the power to call up dead spirits of deceased loved ones or anyone for that matter. Mediums who are able to call up some "spirit" are not calling up our dead loved ones. No, for they cannot do that. Instead, what they are calling up is sometimes referred to as "familiar spirits" or to put it more bluntly "demons" who inpersonate deceased loved ones in order to deceive and ensnare unsuspecting people. Consider the account in 1 Samuel 28:3-19. For the Witch of Endor cried out in fear and distress, realizing that the spirit she had called up was not her usual "familiar spirit [demon]," but was in fact the prophet Samuel. Her words to Saul were, "Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul." (v.12).
All the best to you my friend.
-Jerry
Hey Alex,
ReplyDeleteHere's my thoughts continued below:
The truth is that when our loved ones and friends die they go to one of two places, and that is hell below or heaven above. For we read about "The Rich Man and Lazarus" in Luke 16:19-31 where there is a "great chasm fixed"(v.26) so that the souls of the dead in hell or in heaven cannot travel from one place to the other. The Rich Man ask Father Abraham if he could send him [Lazarus]to warn his five brothers what awaited them when they would die. But he was refused that request. The reason is given in the next few verses of the chapter. In the same opening paragraph of your response, you stated, "In Isaiah 8:19 we note the prophet contrasted the work of a MEDIUM with the work of a PROPHET as ways to know God's will. In this passage, Isaiah said that people shouldn't (not couldn’t) be asking the dead for guidance through the mediums." The work of a MEDIUM and the work of a PROPHET is indeed quite different like night and day. It is obvious that a "Prophet's" work is to be for God, whereas the work of a "Medium" is for the devil. Now Alex, you are not telling me that a Medium who does the work of the devil is another way "to know God's will" are you? For the devil's intent through a Medium is to deceive. And if that means mixing in a bit of truth with a lie to suit his purpose in deception, then the devil will do so. Now as for the last part of your comment in reference to Isaiah, where you stated, "...In this passage, Isaiah said that people shouldn't (not couldn’t) be asking the dead for guidance through the mediums." The word "should" is mentioned 2 times in Isaiah 8:19 (NASB) and for good reason. For the prophet was warning them not to. To do so would be an act of rebellion to God. For as mentioned earlier, it would not be their deceased loved one they would be contacting, but rather a demon ["familiar spirit"] inpersonating them. Then verse 20 Isaiah says this about mediums and spirits "To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn [literally: "no light"]." In other words, Alex, mediums are most certainly not on par with a prophet of God, when it comes to consulting either one for knowing the will of God. For a medium cannot give light, only darkness to us in telling us what God's will is for our lives; whereas, the prophet of God who is in touch with God can! For he has the light of God in him. Hope this helps to clear up the matter.
-Jerry
Alex,
ReplyDeleteLastly, you ended with these words, "But no, the Bible does NOT teach that men have no power to call up dead spirits. The Bible teaches that men should not for the above reasons." Alex, as you can observe from my two above responses that "NO," men DO NOT have the power to call up dead spirits, only familiar spirits (demons) who can inpersonate dead spirits. For the passage you cited in Isaiah 8:19-20 definitely does NOT support your argument, but rather it supports mine. For obvious reasons, which are that (1.) It is an act of rebellion against God (See Deut. 18:9-11; Isa. 8:19-20); (2.) It is seeking knowledge apart from God; (3.) finally, it is contacting demons who inpersonate deceased loved ones, it is deception (See 1 Sam. 28:3-19).
All the Best!
-Jerry
YOU SAID: “The truth is that when our loved ones and friends die they go to one of two places, and that is hell below or heaven above.”
ReplyDeleteJerry, it would appear that not only do the OT and NT writers disagree with you, but so does Jesus himself. There is little doubt where Jesus thinks the dead are, and that is in the grave or rather in “Sheol” (the realm of the dead) awaiting bodily resurrection to a superior life.
Jesus said, “Truly, truly I tell you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself, and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice, and come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. (John 5:25-29)
Are you trying to tell others and me that the dead go to be with God in heaven at death and then return to the tomb only to be raised again? Once again, you are majoring in EISEGESIS as what you’re teaching is in opposition to that taught by the biblical writers.
The "place" where the dead go is so definite that it has its own name: "Sheol." The OT portrait of Sheol is not a picture of any individual grave, per se. Rather, it is a picture of the realm of the dead, and the state of the dead in death, in general. Look at "Sheol" as a concept, verse-by-verse from Genesis all the way thru Revelation and see how the concept develops as you go along. Remember that truth (or our human perception of it) is progressive. The Bible itself frequently shows growth and development of an idea (i.e., “progressive relation”) and death is certainly one of those developing ideas. We need to look at everything the Bible says on the subject. And there is much more than you are seemingly aware of. Sorry, Jerry, but once again you don’t get to make up stuff as you go along.
Both good and evil persons inevitably die, and death means a departure to Sheol for the soul. The body returns to dust and bones. There is no doubt how the OT describes the realm of death. The dead are neither in heaven nor in hell, nor are they unconscious in a non-existent state. Since this is shockingly different from how some of us have been taught, is there perhaps some change in the NT material that accounts for current Christian doctrine? The answer is no. The NT writers held exactly the same view of the state of the dead as did the OT writers. That is, that the dead remain in the realm of the dead -- and fully aware of their state -- until the second coming of Christ.
Are you interested in the developing the Biblical concept of death? Or would you rather just make up stuff as you go along? The former is EXEGESIS, what responsible students of the Bible should be striving for; the latter is EISEGESIS, precisely what we’re to avoid like the plague.
-Alex Haiken
http://JewishChristianGay.wordpress.com